What Ticks You Off About SA Music?
October 21, 2008 – 17:33 by John
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At some point, everyone who’s forced to rely on performing for others for their bread and butter has had a rant about the state of the music industry, be it here in South Africa or abroad. So here’s a tasty discussion thread from a Facebook group entitled ‘What Pisses You Off In SA Music Scene?” Comments below, or on the original thread. Raw and unedited, from the mouths of SA’s most pissed off fans, bands and venue owners. Comment…Ok, here’s one thing I have to constantly deal this with being a host of shows and never get bar takings. In 1991 – 1992 Woody, myself and a few other friends had a club open in Goodwood off all places. Called The Attic. We were short lived as we constantly had the NG Kerk with Bibles protesting on the pavement with cop vans there every night to arrest the “undead”
Now guys, we managed to host band nights a few times… I have the flyer up on the Subterania Page of this. One night we hosted Raven Wolf who were a shit hot kinda folk metal band who actually included Fuzzy the fiddler etc of Lark [RIP] The second band was Slay Ride who were a happening band doing Metallica kinda style metal. 1991 – Our cover charge was R8 for 2 bands. Beers have increased from R1.25 a beer to R10 a beer but the cover charge remains poor. Once I was chatting outside to Paul from Sugardrive who were playing at the Purple Turtle with the Dolly Rockers and the cover charge was R5!!! A beer then was about R4.50. I saw about 20 people turn back not wanting to pay R5 to see 2 good bands. I know the economy is very bad at the moment, but this has been coming for years now.
Comment…My god…I know of The Attic. Unforutnately or should I fortunately I am not a venue owner. But here’s my 2c’s worth. For me to pay R20, R30 or even sometimes R50 is okay to see a band, as long as the band is worth their money…so the band gets the entrance money and the venue walks away with the profit they made at the bar. So who actually brought in the people at the venue, the band o the venue? I say it is a 50/50 relationship their, so shouldn’t the band be entitled to some profit sharing in the amount of drinks that was sold that evening? Okay, maybe that’s asking a bit to much from the venue, but what if the attendance for a certain show was record breaking for your venue, should the venue owner pay an incentive to the band? Comment…Agreed. I feel that it IS unfair about the bar story. There should be AT LEAST a sliding scale like Mercury has for venue hire. There should NOT be a fixed venue hire fee. I do believe the venue owners SHOULD pay an incentive to the bands/organisers indeed. Comment…The truth of the matter is that the club owners no that the bands cannot stick together and force an issue. Why should the clubs just hand over there profit. Running a venue like Mercury or Roar cannot be cheap and the attendance at the venues not consistent. The venues often work on swings and round abouts. Comment…lets be honest can we?? venues dont care about the bands… they only care what $$$ comes in. they will let any band in as long as that band can bring in a crowd and ultimately turn over revenue at the bar. VENUES: please tell me im wrong?? so in turn… cover charge should NOT be the only source of the bands income… venues should pay bands a set fee (neg at management level) and also offer % of bar turnover and door money.
Comment…As I mentioned somewhere earlier, I don’t think most locals believe that SA bands are worth the money they’re paying. Everybody seems to want a free lunch, or would rather spend their money on beer. Charging anything more than R30 for a gig means that the crowds just won’t show up. It’s got nothing to do with money being tight, especially if it’s an all ages show, since mom and dad often can front the extra money. People just don’t want to pay, end of story. I’m agreeing about the set fee thing – my band always tries to negotiate an up-front fee because previous experience has taught us that we’ll often end up playing for nothing ‘cos the venue didn’t make any money. This is a sad state of affairs that I really have no idea how to remedy, besides trying to get people more excited in local music. Comment…Ok right being in a band myself and also being a broke ass student. I always think about paying more than R50 for less than 2 bands but it is not all about the quantity its the quality I have been to some kak shows and regretted paying the cover the next day I would rather pay R50 for 1 good band than 10 kak bands. But honestly I don’t have a huge problem with covers I piss most of my money down the drain at he bar anyway. But the thing is at the end of the day I don’t go to drink I can do that at home I go for a good show. So in saying that I feel the band should deliver and get payed for what they deliver (cover charge) and the venue gets there share trough the sales at the bar. But then again I also feel that if the venue charges the band for the use of the venue the band should get X% of the profit made at the bar and like wise if a band charges a venue for there services then the venue should be entitled to a % of the cover charge Comment…Why is it that some people will pay R50+ to see a crappy band/artist at a venue where they are forced to remain seated, and where there is no bar. I would much rather pay that amoun in cover charge while having the choice of sitting or standing, and drinking or not drinking. I don’t know about the rest of you, but I enjoy myself more if I can sway to the rhytm of the music holding a cold one… Ryan you are so wrong, if you think running a venue like R.O.A.R is cheap think again. We keep our drink prices as low as we possibly can so my $$$$ as you mentioned is not as much as you think we need to turn almost 5 times more than your average club that has a crappy sound system to make the same profit if we do make a profit. Comment…Ryan you are so wrong, if you think running a venue like R.O.A.R is cheap think again. We keep our drink prices as low as we possibly can so my $$$$ as you mentioned is not as much as you think we need to turn almost 5 times more than your average club that has a crappy sound system to make the same profit if we do make a profit. Comment…In 1989 at Arties Cellar Pub in CT we charged R2 entrance for Saturday metal DJ-sessions (which lasted from 14h00-17h00 and R5 when bands (usually two) played!! Comment…The good old days. Comment…You are so wrong Ryan. Come visit one day and I will show you how much it costs to run a venue and how much we do for emerging and established bands. As a matter of fact our Wednesday deal offers a set fee and a percentage of the bar after a set number of people is reached. Comment…It seems like the lack of interest in paying decent cover charge is largely a capetonian epedemic. It’s only in Cape Town where we’ve had people turning away from a R20 cover charge (three bands). In jhb we charge anywhere from R30 if we’re playing alone), up to R60. I have seen similar behaviour at places in Prehistoria, where people just didn’t want live music – they only wanted to play pool in silence (and have a lekker barney halfway through). So from a musician’s pov, as far as up North goes, I guess it’s just a matter of choosing the right venues. (They’re few and far between). As far as cpt and surrounds go – fuck, I don’t have a clue. The venues there are just brilliant, but people don’t wanna pay. Comment…This is from Roots Obz.We have just started live music again and it’s getting increasingly difficult to get bands to play for the door charge.Yes it is a 50/50 partnership with the bands, we have advertising costs etc to pay so that is why we now have a solution…band take door…plus if they reach a certain amount of bar takings they get a %..but they must also share in the costs…sound engineer, pa system…so it in their best interests if they play two sets instead of one long one and make the crowd get their money worths. Comment…hey travis Comment…Maybe someone should work out why the daisies last weekend reduced the fee of one band I know of from last year and yet they earn an estimated 3 mill from the festival plus sponsorship. As usual the band gets the shaft. That was the oversold festival standing at between 11 & 12 thousand people? Comment…Guys – I bought my venue because I absoluatlly love SA music – always have and always will. Yes – cape Town people have a bigger issue with paying money to see a band – maybe because they have such a huge variety to choose from in one area. Of ons is dalk net cheapscate – when jhb people buy a black label at the bar for R8 they are smiling. Cape Town people want to know when is happy hour. For those of you that complain about paying R20/R30 for 2/3 bands – need to play in a band. Those of you that want to give the little money venue owners make on the bar to pay exspenses to bands are absolutally welcome to visit me and see what running a venue actually cost. The reality is angels – everything is exspensive for all of us – when the amp blows and it costs R11 000 to replace – the fans goes home and pass out and the band take their groupies to the after party – and we as venue owners drink another cold Jager and hope its all a bad dream! Comment…*******My Comment…’s are Specifically Directed at SA Metal/Rock Bands********* As a musician I Am Appalled at the mindset certain people have. A lot of bands seem to Miss the following: 1) No one ever said being in a band is easy. 2) No one said you’d make money. 3) There’s no guarantee you will have fans. 4) There’s no gurantee you can make a living in a full time band. HArd Work and dedication is what it takes. And Yes TALENT!!!!!!!!!!!! “there aren’t any metal promoters” Promote your damn self! “not enough people at the gigs” Instead of the bitching and moaning why not grow up and realise that in a band you have 1 of 2 Choices. A) F*ck the Fortune B) Start treating you band like a Business. Think outside the box. If you don’t pull a big enough crowd, advertise more. If you don’t make enough cash from gigging, sell more merch ! BEtter merch. In order for a business to Be successful Takes Time. CApitAL!!!!! is the key to a good start. You gotta be prepared to sink deep into your own pockets and not just the band fund. Screw drinking,smoking etc, The cash you make at giggs and from merch put Straight back into the Business(Band) But hey this is just My Opinion based on experience in the industry. Five Reasons To Register on Overtone
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